Repeat for as many pairs of gears as may be involved in the gear train. Borgeson Mopar 800127 technical information. Return Port: 16mm X 1.5 Flare (Located Closest to Input shaft). Getting the box out and back in is what takes the time. Technical specs on the Cardone 27-7595-. Assuming this is true, a quicker-ratio manual box or r&p may be created by disabling the power steering system. [1] Method 1 Finding the Gear Ratio of a Gear Train Two Gears 1 Start with a two-gear train. Really easy. On the input shaft side of the steering box the steering wheel is attached. The steering wheel decided is AIM Formula steering wheel 2 which has a radius of 130 mm. Springs. A.K.A. Part No. The Borgeson Saginaw/Delphi 700 Series steering box, which can be ordered from Borgeson ( p/n 800205) or JEGS ( p/n 153-800205 ), is a variable ratio remanufactured steering box that shares the same dimensions as the original steering box. This is easy to measure from the outside of the gearbox. On the input shaft side of the steering box the steering wheel is attached. If you do not regularly check the service of the steering box, a grinding noise can creep up. A higher steering ratio means that you have to turn the steering wheel more, to get the wheels turning, but it will be easier to turn the steering wheel. H1 has a larger piston for less effort with a faster turning ratio (variable 13 to 16-1 vs 17-1), with 13/16" input splines and metric fittings as original on Scrambler. This is what I have on my 67 Barracuda. 2. It is my favorite steering box of all the GM boxes if you run large enough front tires to firm up the steering feel. Maximum Pressure: 1450 PSI Maximum Operating Pressure, 1100 . Casting numbers from the box won't help you a bit. Input Shaft: 11/16"(17MM)-36 Spline. My research indicates the ratio of the box should be 16:1 and I'd like to confirm that, but I don't have a degree wheel. Hey all, My 68 Elky has a manual steering box which i am in the process of switching it over to power and am wanting a quick ratio box that's 3 turns or a little less. I have a 20:1 in my car and it's nice when you're off idle and rolling above 5 mph, little input is required to get desired results. Part of this package was a quicker ratio steering box to reduce steering wheel movement when turning. This ratio can be expressed as the number of gear teeth divided by the number of pinion teeth. Wheels. The new one just spins around the steering box output shaft. Third, a bad, damaged, or failing gearbox is generally the result of a lack of proper lubrication, reducing smooth movement, and a lack of repairs or service. It is also a variable ratio box, which means that the further you turn the wheel, the faster the tires turn. The steering gear box is the heart of the vehicle's steering system. A 15/16-inch socket is used on the Pitman arm nut. The output shaft and frame bolts on old and new are identical and the steering box looks the same externally. Directness and responsiveness come at the expense of steering effort. Part of this package was a quicker ratio steering box to reduce steering wheel movement when turning. However, the best way to find out is to carry out a test procedure. 0° to 5°, 0° to 10°, 0° to 15°, etc.) STEERING BOX RATIO INFORMATION This info is from magazine articles & GM brochures. This technique also works for sprockets as well as pitch-diameter ratios between belt pulleys. BORGESON Power Steering Box Saginaw 700 12.7:1 Ratio P/N - 800130. 3.99) portion.To calculate the group of curves a given steering angle range Δδ H must be assumed on, both wheels (e.g. When building from the ground up, several factors, such as the length of the pitman's arm and the length of the steering arm, affect the final steering ratio . Gear Box, Power Steering, 1980-88 G-Body. If there is a flat spot on the shaft and some of the splines are missing, count halfway around where there are splines and double that number. A 5/8-inch socket is used to mount the steering box. Steering Box. The output shaft is connected to the steering rack. July 2007. Divide one number by the other. It is worn out, but I have a . then i bolted a wire to the steering coupler. This was accomplished by installing the 16:1 ratio steering box in the car. Steering ratio is the angle need to turn the steering wheel for one 1 degree turn of the tyres. For safety, every nut in the system has a cotter pin. Pressure Port: 16mm X 1.5 Flare (Located Closest to Engine). is a full size). This relationship is called the gear teeth - pinion teeth ratio or the gear ratio. Had to take it out since I couldn't steer the car at low speeds. The PS included a power cylinder (aka ram) attached to the steering linkage. The cars with 16/13:1 ratios turned . 1932-36 Ford steering box gasket set Steering Regular Price $ 9.95 excl.VAT. The only thing you have to be careful with is getting the steering column clocked back in the right place on the box input shaft. The steering box on a car has an input and output shafts on either end. It will FIT ALL full size cars that take a model "808" Saginaw steering box (which the Riv. bend a wire indicator to something stationary and bend it to 0 degrees. Location: Menlo Park, CA. Events Racing FAQ Use; More . I prefer the long pitman but with your box either one should work OK. David S seeburg220 Registered Joined Jul 4, 2008 351 Posts Here is the way to find out your steering box ratio. Sitting on the bench I can turn the shaft that the steering column connects to almost 3 turns lock to lock. It guides the wheels' movement in conjunction with the direction that the steering wheel is rotated, helping achieve ideal steering response for more efficient driving. Remove the old components. The 3-hole is the same pattern, just missing one hole and will fit directly into any vehicle that had a 4-hole pattern. Hop Shock (if equipped) Bumpstops. The steering wheel travel for one complete rotation =2π x r . The ratio of your power steering gearbox will determine how quickly your vehicle reacts to your steering input. Some of the exceptions were the 1969 Camaro and some full size Pontiacs that had the popular 16/13:1 variable ratio power gearbox. $468.00. The steering box houses the gear train which determines the steering ratio. Chevy put out some interchange books years ago, they might have them today also, that will give you the part numbers and what they fit. The gearing can vary so you have to do the lock-to-lock test to identify. This is the box ratio not the overall ratio listed on the option sheet. 22.5 -----16.2. Local Time: 6:40 PM. Research shows the H1 box is also 4 bolt with the 76 cast mark. Finding Your Axle Ratio Vehicle Codes Method. Point the wheels straight ahead used board to mark line on floor, turn wheel one complete turn ( 360* ) make another mark on floor, then measure the angle of the lines on the floor and divide. To determine the spline size of a component (rack and pinion, steering column, and steering box), measure the outside diameter and count the number of splines. Use the number of turns to verify ratio. Be the first to review "1932-34 Ford 15:1 ratio steering sector shaft" Cancel reply. Dec 17, 2007. Location: Menlo Park, CA. 36 Spline Input;14:1 Quick Ratio. I had 16* so it came out to 360* / 16* = 22.5 so 22:1 steering roughly. This gives the gear ratio. This is what I have on my 67 Barracuda. Steering ratio Solve Add to Solver Description The steering ratio is the relationship between how far you turn a steering wheel and how far the actual wheels turn as a result. The steering box includes adapters, so you can use either O-ring or flare-style hose connections. This is what the pinion sees and is simply tangential force * arm (radius pinion) [in Nm]. Steering ratio is also determined somewhat by the effective length and shape of the teeth on the sector gear. I added one to my '66 Galaxie and it was one of the best upgrades I did. That would be. Discussions . Standard manual steering ratio was 26:1, almost 6 turns lock-to-lock. Free shipping Free shipping . Frame Brace (between front bed mounts) When I pull a full ZQ8 setup I rip the bed off because it's either that or the gas tank to get the frame brace out and it also gives me easier access to the rear suspension. This is a constant ratio box. Forums. Discussions . Looks like the exact same Ford box on the outside, so for me that was good because it appeared factory original (which is what I wanted). Loosen, but do not remove, the nuts on all of the attaching ball joints. I recommend firm feel if you want to use the original box. Gear Box Identification Guide To properly identify a power steering gear box, use the following identification guide: • Casting number (see catalog) • Number of mounting holes • Input shaft diameter (measure across the splines) • Type of hydraulic port seats (flare or o-ring) • Pitman shaft spline count • Rotation of unit (standard . 11/05/2009 1:18 AM. Check the label for the code NV7. Power steering was 4 turns or maybe 3.8 in 68 and 69 AMX, and 70 was a variable ratio with 3.2 or 3.3 turns lock to lock. The Park Avenue takes about a 1/3 of a turn. Tried to install my new rare parts pitman arm for my 383-S Barracuda that has a factory fast ratio steering box. rotate the steering coupler a perfect revolution or 2 or even 3 if. If it was 3 turns, you'd have 12:1. b. steering wheel movement to be 180 degrees the steering ratio can be calculated as S.R =180/25 =7.2 V. RACK TRAVEL Once the steering ratio has been calculated the rack travel needs to be decided. Lock to lock, the factory CJ box is 4.1 turns, the Hummer box is 3.4. This is often spec'd out in torsion bar size. This new Borgeson steering box uses a 3/4-inch by 30 spline input shaft, and all pre-1977 cars will require a new rag joint connector (#990012). performance. Place a degree wheel on the output shaft and turn the input shaft exactly one turn. In the 1960's , GM used, almost exclusively, a 20:1 ratio power steering gear in most of their cars. Greg needed to create a slot in the steering column to match the clamp style attachment of . If the car had Power Steering, it already had the quick ratio box which received the normal power steering ID tag code. If someone quotes you a stock power box for a 62-67 Nova then it is likely you will not get the correct box. Steering Box Type: For full application listings and technical information, please visit Borgeson. To measure steering box ratio on a non-variable ratio box: A steering box has 85 degrees in 3 turns of the input shaft, divide the 85 by 3, which equals 28.3 degrees per turn. Calculate rack and pinion: important definitions. Just by "eye balling" the movement of the sector shaft, it appears that it moves about 25 degrees for every lock-to-lock movement of my steering shaft (the box is 4 turns from lock to lock). Steering Ratio: 14:1 (3.5 Turns Lock-to-Lock). If you measure the end cap, the 800 is roughly 3" and the 808 is just under 3.5". I pulled it out to make the adjustments to tighten it up. here is how i checked the ratios. Camaro 64 degree travel divided by 360 time 17:1 ratio = 3.02 turns. Hi, I just got a powersteering box out of a 1980 T/A, at least thats what the guy who sold it to me said it was, the ink stamp is gone, and the casting numbers are all generic, so I used a degree wheel, to determine the ratio, and it seems to be 12.7, I used the method outlined on David's. Chevelle 87 degree travel divided by 360 times 12.7 ratio = 3.06 turns. To make it clear we give you some important definitions: Tangential force or feed force. Plus, there is no feel to the steering because it is so heavily assisted. From my searching Cosworth is 3.0 and regular is 3.6 or 3.8. The question of "why" is based on the fact that I've had sports sedans and sports cars in the past. FORD & MOPAR applications from about '62 to about 1976 as long as the box mounts inside the frame rails & NOT OUTSIDE. Is that the F41 box? 25 -----14.4 almost identical to the OEM Jeep box at 17:1. Borgeson Steering Gear Box for 1975-1986 Chevrolet C10 - Related Components vp. Both feature a nut in the center of the cover, which holds the Pitman splined output shaft in place. It came in both a 3-hole "L" and 4-hole "H" mounting pattern. The splined hole is bigger than the original pitman arm. For example, BMW works with active steering. There's a ratio of 54 to 18 or 3 to 1 this means that pinion is turning . For safety, every nut in the system has a cotter pin. Fast ration 16:1 was an option from 65-69, but it's very rare, and I particularly doubt it was supplied on big block cars, as it would make the steering effort enormous. To go around a clover leaf I've never had to turn the wheel more than an 1/8th turn or so. It was a variable ratio box with 2.3 turns lock to lock. . The actual effort it takes to turn the wheel and engage the power assist. You've either got to know where it came from stock, as in pulled it off yourself, or take the word of the guy selling it.. HotRodRick Save Reply HotRodRick Registered 2. These boxes are also higher effort and provide good road "feel". Quick ratio steering box, 3 - 3.5 turns lock to lock ; Standard ratio steering box, 4 - 4.25 turns lock to lock ; Pitman Shaft: 1-1/4" GM with 32 Splines and 4 Master Splines ; Input shaft 3/4"-30 spline ; Pressure port on gear box is 11/16"-18 flare ; $570.59. Manual gearboxes can be adapted to a quicker 20.0:1 ratio with the purchase of an aftermarket worm gear . On-center feel was good but required more driver attention. Easy if you make a few marks before taking it apart. The only identifier was an inked on 2 letter code on the aluminum end cap, and it is usually long gone, washed or worn away. In a rack-and-pinion steering system, the steering ratio is determined largely by the diameter of the pinion gear. The steering adapts to the speed of the vehicle and reacts more indirectly at higher speeds. The part number 355 posted above is what will be shown on later 124/201 steering boxes, but that's the number for the case. If the car had Power Steering, it already had the quick ratio box which received the normal power steering ID tag code. Those that came with 20:1 ratios, turn a full 4 to 4.25 turns lock to lock. Other than 3 or 4 turns, is there some other way to determine the steering box ratio? Events Racing FAQ Use; More . BMW 2002 and other '02 BMW 2002ti and BMW 1600ti Owners Group BMW 2002 Turbo BMW Neue Klasse Discussion BMW 1600GT Discussion BMW 700 Discussion BMW 2002 and Neue Klasse Events Project Blogs Project Blogs - Archive Dec 17, 2007. Also, take a look at some of our top rated Mechanical Engineering Courses:**. Leave the idler arm, steering box, and Pitman arm tightly bolted in place for now. " BIG " by wife, biatch in garage. Once you know what they fit then the service manuals will tell you additions information like ratio etc. Fast ration 16:1 was an option from 65-69, but it's very rare, and I particularly doubt it was supplied on big block cars, as it would make the steering effort enormous. As soon as it's at the. Let's say it's 4 complete turns, stop to stop. Count the teeth on the pair of meshing gears. We need to know how many teeth are in a . Rear End Links. In this case F 2T = 2 * T 2B / d. The easiest way to tell an 800-type gearbox from a 605-type box is by the type of Pitman cover on the shaft. Lee Power Steering 16:1 variable (13:1 ratio at corners) box with 35-in-lb pressure valve: Overall, it was surprisingly similar to the . I had a 16:1 box in my Coronet for a little while. Start with a two-gear train. Power Steering Box; New; Delphi 800/Saginaw Series; Uses 0.75 in 30 Spline Input Shaft; . OPT FOR PREMIUM STEERING AND GEAR COMPONENTS: Steering and Gear Components need to be as finely tuned as the vehicle they support. I have a steering box that I think is a quick ratio box. Give your classic car a modern feel without losing the stock appearance. DEGREES -----RATIO. Mopar gearboxes from 1966-'74 only came in two ratios: The manual steering gearbox was a 24.0:1 ratio with a radius of five and a third turns of the wheel, while the power steering boxes came in 15.7:1 and three and a half turns of the wheel. If you get it wrong it'll be obvious the first time . This is the correct way to tell. Standard manual steering gear for AMX 5 turns lock to lock (20:1 ratio). The 16:1 box will be too fast and require too much effort in a nose heavy B body car. Quick ratio manual was 4 turns lock to lock (16:1 ratio). This direct bolt-on, remanufactured power steering box replacement has a quick ratio 2-3/4"—three turns lock-to-lock. Live. Because the differences between a conventional 16:1 power steering box and a quick-ratio unit all are internal, it may be difficult to determine if a used box is, in fact, a quick-ratio unit. 20:1 is a good ratio for a B body car. Sixity Auto Direct stands for value, selection, and quality. Loosen, but do not remove, the nuts on all of the attaching ball joints. This is the force [in N] needed to deliver the linear movement profile. However, there is a limit to how small the pinion can be made. car and go all the way left (or right). But I have a manual trans so I often need to shift at same time I'm steering. Shocks. The Hummer box has a larger internal piston which should provide more steering power. Remove all of these using needle nose pliers and side cutters where needed. Forums. Mathematically, steering ratio = (angle turned by steering wheel)/ (angle turn in steered tyres) For example, if the steering wheel is turned 20° and the front tyres only turn 1°, that gives a steering ratio of 20:1. So in this example, since there are 54 teeth on the larger gear and 18 teeth on the pinion. NEW 1932-34 Ford 15:1 Steering sector / worm gear set If it's there, then your car has variable power steering. The 16:1 box will be too fast and require too much effort in a nose heavy B body car. This means that the steering ratio does not react to every little steering wheel wobble and the car does not quickly get off track at high speeds. To measure steering box ratio on a non-variable ratio box: A steering box has 85 degrees in 3 turns of the input shaft, divide the 85 by 3, which equals 28.3 degrees per turn. i took an aluminum plate and taped a piece of paper with degree marks on it. Suspension and Steering News . Borgeson 800130 - Muscle Car Series 12.7:1 Ratio Power Steering Box for Camaro. Suspension and Steering News . the way to that steering stop, counting the complete turns. The smatter the pinion, the higher the steering ratio. . Calculate Shipping Ask a Question. Steering Ratio - Effect on how fast the front tires turn. If you get a 76-78 Z28 box (probably same for . Though the outside dimensions are identical and it uses a similar box as the the original, it's what is . Redhead in Seattle has direct bolt-in Ford quick-ratio steering boxes that'll drop it to 15-1 at around 3.5 turns lock-to-lock. Lock to lock turns are now about 2.3 and 2.5 turns on each car. I looked at several websites on steering boxes but didn't see anything on how to determine a quick ratio box from non quick. Remove all of these using needle nose pliers and side cutters where needed. With the variable ratio, it drives nicer at high speed than the fixed ratio boxes, and yet it turns faster at . The steering ratio is actively adjusted in certain car models. 360 degrees divided by 28.3 = 12.7208, which means you have the 12.7 to 1 ratio box. . That way you get to confirm the presence (or not)of the variable-assist power steering.You also get to check if its still functional. •. ONLINE TOOL: Calculate Steering Lock using Wheel Rotation and Predefined Ratios or specify your own Ratio/Rotation - calculatrise - calculadora Javascript MUST be enabled STEERING LOCK RATIO CALCULATOR v1.6 Audi will include its high-tech dynamic steering on request in some model lines. The friction causes metal on metal contact, creating a loud grinding noise . It doesn't fit! The second number you posted looks like a chevy part number. Failing Gearbox. steering stop, spin the wheel in the opposite direction all. Fits 1980-1988 Chevrolet El Camino, 1980-1988 Chevrolet Monte Carlo, 1980-1987 Oldsmobile Cutlass, 1982-1986 Pontiac Bonneville, 1980-1987 Pontiac . If not, what is it? The steering valve is what gives you the feel of the road. GM began using Saginaw 800 quick-ratio steering boxes as a sport option on Chevelle, Nova and Camaro models in the middle to late Sixties. Your box sounds like the original 1970 power steering box. I called rare parts and they haven't heard of this problem before. Borgeson if that's not important to you. CARDONE® Remanufactured Steering Gear Boxes are re-engineered, built and tested to match O.E. This includes some JEEP. BMW 2002 and other '02 BMW 2002ti and BMW 1600ti Owners Group BMW 2002 Turbo BMW Neue Klasse Discussion BMW 1600GT Discussion BMW 700 Discussion BMW 2002 and Neue Klasse Events Project Blogs Project Blogs - Archive The quicker the ratio the harder to turn. Leave the idler arm, steering box, and Pitman arm tightly bolted in place for now. The true steering ratio, as experienced by the driver, would be the dynamic ratio i dyn, this comprises the proportions resulting from steering Δδ H and the elastic Δδ H,e (Fig.